Bashkir - Forum

Date: Tuesday, 25-Sep-2012, 11:33:12 | Message # 1

Generalissimo

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The RB are the weakest army in AT-43.

Che has recently acquired a Dust SSU helicopter.

Here are some stats for it in AT-43 that we (me and Che) might playtest.

Bashkir 43 (Red Blok helicopter)

(Bashkir ; a hardy, sturdy pony from the Urals)

Bashkir = 225 AP

AFV** (They have a 8cm base.)

Move 25 cm / morale 8 / Armour 14 / CCD 5 / Transport Capacity 8

Weapons : triple cannon

Can shoot only in its front arc.

Frame 4 / Propulsion 2 / Weapons 2 (triple cannon)

1 Triple Cannon : Accuracy 5 / ROF 8/0 ..... Pen/Dam 8/1...PS 2.

Design notes.

based on the Karman DK.

-2 morale / -1 CCD / +Turbo-jet ability

Turbo-jet = rush move +25cm instead of +10cm

Message edited by zellak - Wednesday, 26-Sep-2012, 08:57:24

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "

Date: Tuesday, 25-Sep-2012, 17:32:53 | Message # 2

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Message edited by pavlov - Thursday, 27-Sep-2012, 19:41:20

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield

Date: Tuesday, 25-Sep-2012, 19:39:54 | Message # 3

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Quote (pavlov)

Did we not try this before and got shut down

I thought that when we failed to agree on any new transports we went back to using the ones that come with the army.

If it only for use in bounce games I've no complaint.

That and I don't intend to participate in games/campaigns where we have created units in use.

It caused too much pain the last time. angry

Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy

Date: Wednesday, 26-Sep-2012, 08:30:50 | Message # 4

Generalissimo

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Quote (pavlov)

did we not try this before and got shut down

Thanks for your input. dry

Quote (Banksi)

If it only for use in bounce games I've no complaint.

That and I don't intend to participate in games/campaigns where we have created units in use.

Already noted, this is not being forced on anyone !
Only the people involved need worry about the sanctity of game balance.

After getting a PM from another AT-43 player, i suggest the stats for the triple cannon change to.

Triple cannon ; accuracy 4 / ROF 9/0 ....Pen Dam 7/1 / PS 2

(To bring it in line with other RB MG (and make it easier to remember. happy

)

To balance this out, a change in the movement would be fair.
Increasing movement to 30cm, and drop Turbo-jet to + 20cm on a rush move.

So............................

Bashkir 43 (Red Blok helicopter)

(Bashkir ; a hardy, sturdy pony from the Urals)

Bashkir = 225 AP

AFV** (They have a 8cm base.)

Move 30 cm / morale 8 / Armour 14 / CCD 5 / Transport Capacity 8

Weapons : triple cannon

Can shoot only in its front arc.

Frame 4 / Propulsion 2 / Weapons 2 (triple cannon)

1 Triple Cannon : Accuracy 4 / ROF 9/0 ..... Pen/Dam 7/1...PS 2.

Feel free to post or pm me any constructive ideas on how to improve the RB.

Message edited by zellak - Wednesday, 26-Sep-2012, 09:32:49

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "

Date: Wednesday, 26-Sep-2012, 16:54:18 | Message # 5

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Message edited by pavlov - Thursday, 27-Sep-2012, 19:41:49

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield

Date: Sunday, 07-Oct-2012, 22:20:07 | Message # 6

Generalissimo

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Quote (pavlov)

Can we all buy this super red blok transport

Only if you want to playtest it when fielding a RB force.

Otherwise why worry about it ? happy

Added (27-Sep-2012, 9:37 AM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote (pavlov)

So you want to give a dirt kongaroo to the red blok and double the capacity for the same cost.

Yes....... its a leg up. (see sub title of this thread)

1) Take the most overpowered transport in the game.
2) Tweak it.
3) Give it to the side that has the most underpowered units in the game.

Game balance.

This is one way to help the RB, but i'm sure they will need more help than that. cool

But for that we will need another thread.

Do you want to start one, so we can get some ideas together before the next campaign.

Added (28-Sep-2012, 9:17 AM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote (pavlov)

LOL

....i can take that as a no, then. tongue

Added (07-Oct-2012, 10:20 PM)
---------------------------------------------
A gift from the Monkeys kiss

Bashkir (Red Blok helicopter based on the Dirt Kongaroo)

(Bashkir ; a hardy, sturdy pony from the Urals)

Bashkir = 225 AP

AFV** (They have a 8cm base.)

Move 25 cm / morale 8 / Armour 13 / CCD 5 / Transport Capacity 8

Weapons : triple cannon

Can shoot only in its front arc.

Frame 4 / Propulsion 3 / Weapons 2 (triple cannon)

1 Triple Cannon : Accuracy 4 / ROF 9/0 ..... Pen/Dam 7/1...PS 2.

(plus a gift from the Morphos friends

Turbo -jet !)

Turbo -jet : Anti-grav generator which allows a rush move of +25cm

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

From another thread...

A gift from the UNA, AT guns for Type 1 striders.... just like the UNA Firetoad .

A gift from the Cogs, a reroll for the RB missiles...just like the Cogs.

A gift from the ONi, upgrade all RB striders to match ONi AFV... Type 1 = 4 frame / Type 2 = 5 frame / Type 3 = 6 frame...just like the ONi.

XXX
love

Message edited by zellak - Sunday, 07-Oct-2012, 22:39:03

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "

Date: Monday, 08-Oct-2012, 13:34:59 | Message # 7

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Quote (zellak)

1) Take the most overpowered transport in the game.

Your forgetting that in previous encounters with making transports you missed out in the vital costing, The fact they are mainly transports and capacity is a major part in their costing, So doubling the troops capacity should almost double the cost!! All other attributes are secondary in a transport.

The cost of the Bashkir should probably be about 400 - 425pts - due to the increased capacity (Thats without the turbo boost) ,500pts with turbo.

Have a look back at our last transport thread the facts are all there.

Comparing the costs of all transports makes it blatantly obvious, The ONi transport is the one that proves the point on capacity costs.

I feel like we are going over old ground again dry

Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy

Date: Monday, 08-Oct-2012, 18:32:40 | Message # 8

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Hi

I don t see the point in creating a new "transport" when the existing one could be tweeked by adding an extra hull point and changing the existing guns for AT gause guns.

The lack of overall AT weapons could be addressed by the proliferation of the AT gause gun in type 2 and type 3 infantry and on type one and two afv's with tweaks to hull points and overall speed (type 3 infantry) that lot should give the RB a buff and would be worth playtesting to get an idea if it helps ....i cant see why it wont.

Turbo jet yer havin a laugh.

Alan

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield

Date: Monday, 08-Oct-2012, 18:53:41 | Message # 9

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Quote (pavlov)

I don t see the point in creating a new "transport" when the existing one could be tweeked by adding an extra hull point and changing the existing guns for AT gause guns.

I think this statement says it all, Stick to the equipment in the RB army book.

Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy

Date: Tuesday, 09-Oct-2012, 10:51:29 | Message # 10

Generalissimo

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To Pavlov and Banksi :

If you dont want to use the Bashkir then thats okay. happy

Me and Che will add it only in our games/campaigns.

No big deal. smile

Added (09-Oct-2012, 9:11 AM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote (pavlov)

Turbo jet yer havin a laugh.

The idea is to give the RB a reaaaaaally scary tactical advantage.

Nowhere else in the RB book does such a thing exist......its all a bit meh. sad

Turbo-jet gives the Bashkir one of the Therians most powerful tactical advantages, 50cm movement!

So although the RB have the weakest infantry, they would have an ability which would allow them to get into position faster than anyone.
(except the Therians dry

)

The idea is to give the RB a real advantage. And coupled with the OP DK stats, this should be a game winner.

Added (09-Oct-2012, 9:15 AM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote (Banksi)

The cost of the Bashkir should probably be about 400 - 425pts - due to the increased capacity (Thats without the turbo boost) ,500pts with turbo.

Only if you are trying to balance it....i'm not (and your estimate is mental wacko

), this is a leg up for the RB remember ?

Added (09-Oct-2012, 10:51 AM)
---------------------------------------------
Just noticed the Chopper has 4 machineguns not three!

Bashkir (Red Blok helicopter based on the Dirt Kongaroo)

Bashkir = 225 AP

AFV** (They have a 8cm base.)

Move 25 cm / Morale 8 / Armour 13 / CCD 5 / Transport Capacity 8

Weapons : Quad MG
(Can shoot only in its front arc.)

Frame 4 SP / Propulsion 3 SP / Weapon 2 SP (Quad MG)

1 Quad MG : Accuracy 5 / ROF 6/1..... Pen/Dam 7/1...SP 2. ( design note ; Counting roughly as two MG with +1 ACC and a reroll smile

)

Turbo -jet : Anti-grav generator which allows a rush move of +25cm

To Walter : Please use these stats for the card......Many Thanks. biggrin

Message edited by zellak - Tuesday, 09-Oct-2012, 11:24:41

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "

Date: Tuesday, 09-Oct-2012, 15:38:10 | Message # 11

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Only if you are trying to balance it....i'm not (and your estimate is mental ), this is a leg up for the RB remember ?

Why didn't you say that the Bashkir was gonna be a game breaker from the start, it would have saved everyone else from thinking of ways to help and balance the RB!!!!

And as for my estimate being mental, it's no more mental than your points estimate. All those extra add-ons to the DK stats (Double capacity(85-100pts),Frame (10-15pts), Gun re-roll(25-50pts) & Boost (25-50pts)etc.) for free.... sheesh!!!

Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy

Date: Tuesday, 09-Oct-2012, 17:13:14 | Message # 12

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Hi

I have to agree with Banksi if you had said from the word go that regardless of what we suggested you would go ahead and use the basher then I would have saved the banwidth, thats so broken it's well words fail me that I can use on the forum. what a waste of time and effort.

The Red Blok need fixing but this fixes nothing all you have created is a gunship not a transport no one in there right mind would use that as transport it's way too handy and way too cheap, pointless.

Alan

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield

Zealyot

Date: Tuesday, 09-Oct-2012, 23:01:09 | Message # 13

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If this things going to be in the next campaign then I'm out for sure.

can't we just give the whole unit creation/tweak/rename and give to another army thing a rest because every time someone creates a thread about something like this even more of us get put off of playing in the campaigns

I mean honestly enough is enough, so Racham went bust, so there wont be any new units brought out, so the army that you like the most doesn't have the super game winner/breaker unit you think it should have BIG FLIPPIN WOOPTY DOO things like this happen all the time and life and all you can do is live with the cards(or units in this case) that you've been dealt.

Rant Over.
Zealyot

"In brightest day,
in blackest night,
no evil shall escape my sight,
let those who worship evil's might,
beware my power,
Green Lantern's light!"

Date: Wednesday, 10-Oct-2012, 08:10:05 | Message # 14

Generalissimo

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Like i said before , its only for me and Che to playtest.

See original post !

Quote (pavlov)

The Red Blok need fixing but this fixes nothing all you have created is a gunship not a transport no one in there right mind would use that as transport it's way too handy and way too cheap

Actually that is the main problem with the DK...compare it with other monkey AFV if you dont believe me.

But please do it on another thread.......ps Happy Birthday ! biggrin

Quote (Banksi)

Why didn't you say that the Bashkir was gonna be a game breaker from the start, it would have saved everyone else from thinking of ways to help and balance the RB!!!!

The RB still need balanced, the Bashkir will not address the main problem with the RB lack of AT guns.

Me and Che will playtest this for fun, on top of the other ideas expressed on the other thread.

Added (10-Oct-2012, 8:10 AM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote (Zealyot)

Can't we just give the whole unit creation/tweak/rename and give to another army thing a rest because every time someone creates a thread about something like this even more of us get put off of playing in the campaigns.

Only because people who have no interest in using the new units (either in the games they play, or campaigns they are willing to take part in) continue to vehemently attack anything new.

Why....... i dont know ?

Message edited by zellak - Wednesday, 10-Oct-2012, 11:35:07

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "

Date: Wednesday, 10-Oct-2012, 16:29:07 | Message # 15

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Hi

I think this is whats needed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread-locking_fluid

Quote

Actually that is the main problem with the DK...compare it with other monkey AFV if you dont believe me.

Wrong and you have been proved wrong on this in another thread which got closed down also.

http://www.northayrshirewargamesclub.co.uk/forum/18-252-1

Found it intresting reading that again same old tired bollocks were having on here again.

Quote

Why....... i dont know ?

Oh come on yes you do.

Message edited by pavlov - Wednesday, 10-Oct-2012, 21:28:05

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield

Date: Friday, 12-Oct-2012, 08:14:24 | Message # 16

Generalissimo

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Quote (pavlov)

I think this is whats needed

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread-locking_fluid

A call to lock the the thread surprised

, thats a tad fascist !

Quote (pavlov)

Oh come on yes you do.

Actually no i dont. angry

Please explain your point of view.

If you are unwilling to playtest the new unit, also unwilling to allow any new units in games you take part in, and furthermore are unwilling to take part in campaigns with new units.....then what gives you the right to post on this thread and call for it to be locked ?

In four of my five posts i have explained this is for me and Che. No one is being forced to use these stats.

DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "

Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "

Date: Friday, 12-Oct-2012, 16:22:53 | Message # 17

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Quote

thats a tad fascist

No it's not

Quote

If you are unwilling to playtest the new unit

Never said that.

Quote

also unwilling to allow any new units in games you take part in

Never said that.

Quote

and furthermore are unwilling to take part in campaigns with new units

Never said that.

I call Godwins law on this one folks biggrin

There is f&*k all cool about 10+ civil engineers running around every battlefield

Date: Friday, 12-Oct-2012, 17:00:10 | Message # 18

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To Zellak, it is me that has all of the above issues..

Until the unit appears to be balanced, there is no point play testing it.

Some people thought Musalini was a good guy biggrin

Of course I know your name, it's your face I can't remember - Parahandy