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BA:WW4 generic points
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| zellak | Date: Monday, 03-Feb-2014, 17:13:51 | Message # 1 |
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Dont have the book the yet..
But from memory;
a regular soldier with bolt action rifle is 10 points
+3 points to upgrade to SMG
+5 points to upgrade to Assault Rifle
+20 points to upgrade to LMG
So a basic 5 man squad ( NCO + 4 men ) with 4 Assault rifles and an LMG is 90 points.
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Message edited by zellak - Monday, 03-Feb-2014, 17:42:42
DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Morgoth | Date: Monday, 03-Feb-2014, 19:02:37 | Message # 2 |
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Hi z
Checkout this army builder website, it's perfect for what you need to cross ref points to weapons.
Ref: http://boltaction.easyarmy.com/index.aspx
It's kept up-to-date, so the army-builder I use it to generate my Germanic armies,
Walts
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"The thing's hollow .. it goes on forever .. and .. oh my God! ... it's full of stars!"
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| Zealyot | Date: Tuesday, 04-Feb-2014, 01:02:47 | Message # 3 |
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you could add in body armour for 5pts per model (stolen from the engineers in the russian army book) it gives the shooter a -1 to kill them
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"In brightest day,
in blackest night,
no evil shall escape my sight,
let those who worship evil's might,
beware my power,
Green Lantern's light!"
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| Morgoth | Date: Tuesday, 04-Feb-2014, 07:36:49 | Message # 4 |
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Quote Zealyot you could add in body armour for 5pts per model (stolen from the engineers in the russian army book) it gives the shooter a -1 to kill them
Yeah, that's the kind of thing we played on Sunday using TacArms, so the +5pts to a model would work. Is there any disadvantage for wearing armour ... -1" move or -1 To Hit in H2H sort of thing; or reduce the number of inf allowed from 5 to 4 in the unit?
What about flying? Does the UNA have a simple pts cost for inf or vehicles flying? Or any 40k type units? I need to find (dig!) my old books out of the attic! 
Walts
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Message edited by Morgoth - Tuesday, 04-Feb-2014, 08:29:41
"The thing's hollow .. it goes on forever .. and .. oh my God! ... it's full of stars!"
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| zellak | Date: Tuesday, 04-Feb-2014, 23:44:53 | Message # 5 |
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Couldn't get it to download...and had to get Steven to put my browser thingy at the top of the page back to normal...
i hate computers.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Che | Date: Wednesday, 05-Feb-2014, 23:12:31 | Message # 6 |
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This is getting complex. Brain hurting. Fun level dropping.
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Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| zellak | Date: Wednesday, 05-Feb-2014, 23:33:31 | Message # 7 |
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Quote Che (  ) This is getting complex. Brain hurting. Fun level dropping.
Dont worry....this wont take that long........
But the end result will mean we can use any miniatures we want to. 
Its always been a dream of mine to have a simple system that everyone can join in with, using whatever "sci-fi" troops they want...
Be it.... Star Wars / AT-43 / WH40K / Warmachine or any other collection of miniatures people may have.
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Morgoth | Date: Thursday, 06-Feb-2014, 00:27:17 | Message # 8 |
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Quote Che This is getting complex. Brain hurting. Fun level dropping.
We're looking at making a simple points system that has a little bit of structure too it, but if you don't want to follow the "way-of-the-points", you can totally ignore it, most likely as you done last time playing z and as we did last weekend.
I'll be making an army-builder spreadsheet for the points, so it will be a simple process to see how the armies balance, but if you want to bring some big guns, a flying transport and some of the Kloss models with a helping of Red Blok bad-boys, then it's easy to closely match them to the UNA models, most likely my Tau and many other sciFi models without using any points structure we introduce into the game.
Like z, I would love to see players get their 40k, Star Wars, Starship Troopers, etc, models which haven't seen the light of day for years out into those battlefields again ... War ON!
Walts
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"The thing's hollow .. it goes on forever .. and .. oh my God! ... it's full of stars!"
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| Che | Date: Thursday, 06-Feb-2014, 20:54:17 | Message # 9 |
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Ok, Ok I give in! Jeez, I don't want to start a debate or cause a storm in a tea cup ( randomiser?). Anyhoo I have been looking up points myself using Alan's rule book. Maybe zellak and I could compare notes on Sunday.
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Message edited by Che - Friday, 07-Feb-2014, 10:39:11
Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| zellak | Date: Thursday, 06-Feb-2014, 21:49:51 | Message # 10 |
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Quote Morgoth ( ) Starship Troopers, etc,
Who has Starship Troopers models ???!!! 
I know Ross has a large collection of Void and Necromunda minis......
Quote Che ( ) I don't want to start a debate
Nothing wrong with a bit of constuctive debating. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Morgoth | Date: Thursday, 06-Feb-2014, 21:59:32 | Message # 11 |
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| Zealyot | Date: Friday, 07-Feb-2014, 01:43:18 | Message # 12 |
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Quote zellak ( ) Who has Starship Troopers models ???!!!
I have a handfull of the marines and about a dozen or so of the bugs
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"In brightest day,
in blackest night,
no evil shall escape my sight,
let those who worship evil's might,
beware my power,
Green Lantern's light!"
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| zellak | Date: Saturday, 08-Feb-2014, 22:09:06 | Message # 13 |
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Quote Zealyot ( ) I have a handfull of the marines and about a dozen or so of the bugs
Nice ! Added (08-Feb-2014, 9:09 PM)
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Quote Che ( ) Maybe zellak and I could compare notes on Sunday.
looking forward to it. 
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DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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| Che | Date: Sunday, 09-Feb-2014, 19:16:31 | Message # 14 |
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Here is the first draft of the generic points system for what we now call Meta Wars. I'm sure there'll be some online debate but please bring any ideas to the club for face to face discussion.
Meta Wars
Infantry
Inexperienced 7pts
Regular 10pts
Veteran 13pts
Add:
+5 Body Armour (-1 to hit)
+10 Auto Rifle
+3 SMG
+5 Assault Rifle
+20 LMG
+20 Flame Thrower
+50 Bazooka & Pistol
+20 Grenade Launcher (Counts as Light Mortar, minimum range 6”)
Officers
2nd Lt 25pts, 1st Lt 50pts, Captain 75pts, Major 100pts
Specialists
Medic +10pts for ability
Sniper 50pts (one man)
Forward Observer 60pts (one man + off table medium mortar @ 60pts or heavy mortar @ 120pts)
Tanks
Hulls: Light = 50pts, Medium = 140pts, Heavy = 220pts, Super Heavy = 400pts
Guns: Light = 30pts, Medium = 50pts, Heavy = 70pts, Super Heavy = 140pts
Machine Guns: Medium = 20pts, Heavy = 30pts
Auto Cannon: Light = 30pts, Heavy = 50pts
Missile Launcher: Points as per equivalent gun. Cannot move and fire. Ignores cover.
Other Vehicles
Jeep: 20pts, carries 5 men, armour 6+
APC: 75pts, carries 12 men, armour 7+
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Message edited by Che - Sunday, 09-Feb-2014, 19:31:28
Wargamers like to paint their privates!!
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| Morgoth | Date: Sunday, 09-Feb-2014, 21:34:16 | Message # 15 |
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Hi Guys
Just some silly questions ...
1] Are infantry still limited to five in a squad?
2] Did you discuss flying units?
3] How does the Medic work ... as a single model or with some inf support? ... The points are looking good to get Meta Wars on the battlefields, good job everyone! 
I'll do a draft of what my Tau army points would be as an example for others too see,
Walts
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"The thing's hollow .. it goes on forever .. and .. oh my God! ... it's full of stars!"
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| Che | Date: Sunday, 09-Feb-2014, 23:07:01 | Message # 16 |
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[b][color=red]The answers to your questions are:
1Yes
2 No
3 Medics can either be part of squad (they can only 'medic' that squad) or be free roaming single figures who rush about healing anybody.[i]
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| zellak | Date: Tuesday, 11-Feb-2014, 12:27:55 | Message # 17 |
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The medic rules would change.
When a guy gets killed, lie the figure down,
then when the medic activates he can either cure a guy in his squad ( if he is part of a squad ) or move into contact ( if he is a free roaming single medic).
Then roll a dice, on a 5+ the injured guy gets back up and fights on, (dead on a 1-4)remove the figure as normal otherwise.
This will remove the 6" radius magic bubble effect....which is pathetic.
Walts; we thought about 1500 points would be about right for an army...and limited to 12 dice (ie 12 units)
Notice you add the commander to a five man squad....however the Tau commanders are in Crisis Battlesuits (armoured infantry ??? )
Which might be a bit much having a 5 man squad of battlesuits....so you could count him as a single soft skin vehicle ??? 6+ to kill. ???
Added (10-Feb-2014, 0:15 AM)
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BTW....only one heavy weapon per 5 man squad. ie LMG / Flamer / bazooka / GL
Can you see anything we have missed ?
Added (10-Feb-2014, 9:41 AM)
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Example ; Firetoad (Regular Mech) Medium Hull ( 8+ armour) 140 AP, 2 Medium guns @ 50 AP = 240 AP
Mechs count front armour all round and move as halftracks, but can only fire to 90 degree forward arc.
Added (10-Feb-2014, 9:46 AM)
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Example ; Command squad ;5 Regular infantry @ 10 AP = 50 AP + 4 AssR @5 AP + LMG @ 20AP + 2nd liut. +25 AP = 115 AP
Added (10-Feb-2014, 9:59 AM)
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The points for an APC / armoured car (armour 7+ ) look a bit high....75 AP
Considering you can get a light armour hull ( armour 8+ ) for 50 AP.
Okay.... so the APC can carry 12 troops....but ?...........
???? Jeep 20 AP (6+) / APC 40 AP (7+) / Light armour 60 AP (8+)
+3 AP per transport slot. ????????????????????????????????
Example M3 halftrack APC 40 AP... 12 transport slots @ 3 AP = 76 AP in total + HMG 30 AP= 106 AP ( 99 AP in the book... -7 AP for open topped ???)
Added (10-Feb-2014, 10:11 AM)
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Example ; Wyvern transport... medium armour (8+) 140 AP + 2 HMG @ 30AP = 200 AP ....+ transport 10 @ 3 AP = 230 AP ....+ Helicopter (AP TBA )
I'm planning on play-testing these with the UNA.
Added (10-Feb-2014, 10:16 AM)
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Still need to find an AP cost for Helicopter / open topped / Recce abilities.
Added (10-Feb-2014, 10:34 AM)
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To Che :
i think the forward observers (Artillery one shots) are 100 AP
( we talked about changing a 1 on the call up table to same as 2-3 ie a delay rather than opponent moving the blast 24" ...or maybe a scatter dice roll ? )
a Medium mortar spotter was 60 AP
a Heavy mortar spotter was 120 AP
Added (11-Feb-2014, 10:34 AM)
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What about Specialists ?
Mechanics +10 AP ..... Fix an AFV on a 4+ ....?
Combat Engineers +10 AP....negotiate minefields / cut barbed wire / plant explosives 
Electronic Warfare +10 AP....once per game can have the order dice pulled from the bag go back in.
Commissar +10 AP.....may re-roll all morale checks for all units within 12" ( he/she should be squad leader)... ( this might be better as an army rule ??? )
Anyone got anything else ?
Added (11-Feb-2014, 11:27 AM)
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I was going to do a Therian list but they do not fit as they are fearless aliens. 
Could we add a Superhuman / Alien category to the Infantry types ?
Call it Droid ?.... morale on 11< (1 better than Veterans).... Defence : killed on a 4+ (1 worse than Veterans)....cost as Veterans. 13 AP each.
Did a UNA army instead.
And put up the points cost to give people an easy looksee.
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Message edited by zellak - Tuesday, 11-Feb-2014, 12:30:35
DEMON : " When next we meet, i shall tear you limb from limb...there will be no escape. "
Hero: " You bring balloon animals and i'll hire a clown..... we can make it a regular party. "
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